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so anyway without further ado

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i would like to uh read this little deal

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here

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about noey torres and ruben jarte in

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1955

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some very strange happenings about 50

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miles from here

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where we sit today a witness retired air

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force colonel robert burton willingham

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it's f 86 and

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there's noey torres and ruben duarte who

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wrote the book

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the other roswell the ufo crash on the

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texas mexican border

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today noe and ruben will bring us the

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complete story of what happened

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including all the latest data

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about the reported ufo crash not far

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from right here actually uh to kind of

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put it

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in a better perspective it's over where

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the pecos river runs into the rio grande

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so anyway with that welcome gentlemen

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i'm knowie and this is reuben in case

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you have trouble

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differentiating but we're joined at the

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hip

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sort of and actually uh brad is too

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modest he is the third

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creator of the border zone festivals

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uh brad gave the political know-how

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and the oomph that was necessary

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to end up having five different

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festivals in five different

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texas border cities so

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brad gave us all the ins and out outs on

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how to approach

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folks in the various communities and

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offered to do something to

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enhance tourism in their area as well as

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bring good information about the

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investigations that we and other ufo

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researchers have been doing

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so we've had such a great time over the

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past five years we've had

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we spent a lot of time with the big big

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shots

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in ufo circles stanton friedman travis

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walton

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many many other people nick pope is one

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of our regular um

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speakers uh jim mars

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whom you listened to last night and his

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presentation on ancient

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aliens the conspiracy to withhold the

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truth

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about ancient civilizations and ancient

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contacts with extraterrestrials in our

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society is going to astonish you

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uh this afternoon and then of course

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we've got

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someone you may have heard of george

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nori

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we're going to start our presentation

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i don't know if there's a way to

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slightly dim those lights

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that are reflecting a little bit on the

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screen but if not that's okay

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um i just thought i'd mention that to

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our wonderful guys up in the control

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i told ruben that the last time the last

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couple of times that we've done this

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presentation i have like

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dominated all the talking and

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and i feel bad because reuben had then

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become sort of the

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silent partner but he has so much to

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contribute

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he has over 30 years of experience in

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ufo investigations

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i'm more the author part of it and the

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researcher

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he's more the actual boots

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on the ground guy that goes and stands

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in the middle of crop circles

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he's been all over the world

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investigating uh ufo

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sightings and other paranormal events

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he's been on tv

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i call him mr hollywood he lives in

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in the bay area in california and we

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don't get to see each other very much so

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we

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cherish the time together at these

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festivals where we

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both speak but today

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you're going to have the rare treat

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where ruben is going to be doing most of

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the presentation

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and i'll be his color commentary guy you

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know like

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at the football games so i'll hop

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in and promise me reuben that you won't

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let me

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go on talking too long you know just

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kind of shove me over

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before i start this let me just preface

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it by saying that

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we're going to talk about a reported ufo

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crash about 50 miles

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from here as brad mentioned

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right across the rio grande uh rio

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grande valley

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a rio grande river from uh langtree

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texas

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and it happened in 1955. now

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information that was out there that

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something had happened along the

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texas-mexico border

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there had been a ufo incident a lot of

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people knew about it

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but back then information about ufo

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cases

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did not travel much beyond the

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investigators who were working on it

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we knew that people like

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leonard stringfield who was a pioneer in

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ufo research in the 60s and 70s knew

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about it

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jaylen highneck a lot of the big

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big shots in the 60s knew about an

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incident on the texas-mexico border

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involving

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a downed ufo it was also

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you know there were some works of

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fiction and literature that

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kind of hinted at something happening on

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the border

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reuben and i have a favorite scene from

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a 1962 tv show

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that rod serling wrote the screenplay

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for rod serling

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as you know was the creator of twilight

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zone

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and he was very much in the know about

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actual events that had happened

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paranormal events that had happened and

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he wrote a lot of stories about

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ufos and extraterrestrials so here is

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from

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series series called

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the gift about a ufo crash on the texas

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is

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would you sanchez please

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you know what i was you know what time

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it is and i closed your four o'clock for

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23 years i've crossed the four o'clock

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because you are a policeman you think

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you got the privilege

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wow i will send a telegram it will

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can you tell it to me i will tell it to

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you

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send it

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to the prefect of police state capital

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unidentified aircraft or something

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crashed into the hills

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north of our village late last night

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of the crush found

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evidence of footprints and broken brush

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found body of officer salvador

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say that i followed the figure of the

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the place is mexico just across the

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texas border

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a mountain village held back in time by

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its remoteness

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and suddenly intruded upon by the 20th

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century

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and this is pedro nine years old a

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lonely rootless little boy

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who will soon make the acquaintance of a

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traveler from a distant place

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we are at present 40 miles from the rio

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grande

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but any place and all places can be the

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all right go ahead

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well ladies and gentlemen uh thank you

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newey uh this has been one of our

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favorite clips but whoever thought that

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we would actually be sharing with you

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what rod sterling was talking about a

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ufo crash that happened 40 miles from

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the texas border

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but in our research both knowing i have

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been

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concentrating on ufo crashes

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mysteriously

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how a number of them that have have been

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uh crashing

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along the u.s mexican border

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particularly

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in the state uh very close to the texas

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border

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so we're going to be presenting to you

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some documents

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uh our interviews with uh uh dr

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colonel uh willingham colonel willingham

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and uh share with you some of our

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findings

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it's still not concrete and it we're

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it's or this case is still

211
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open we're still coming across new

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documents

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some people or other colleagues have

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their points of view

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they may not be accurate but

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what we feel is this case is still open

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and we want to share that in our books

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and give

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this presentation on this important

220
00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:01,920
event that happened here near del rio

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let me just add ruben mentioned other

222
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ufo researchers who have different

223
00:11:08,949 --> 00:11:07,360
viewpoints on colonel willingham's

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testimony

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he has pretty much stuck to his story

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with a couple of minor

227
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points um for example the type of

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aircraft that he was flying

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because he told us well at the time i

230
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was flying several different types of

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aircraft the f-84s

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and the f-86s so um

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in his original testimony he mentioned i

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believe an f-84

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right f94 f94 i'm sorry which was a

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variant of the f-86

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um so when we interviewed him

238
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interviewing williams before our book

239
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was published

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which our book is essentially completely

241
00:11:56,629 --> 00:11:50,160
his

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he told us that over the years that he's

243
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had time to think about

244
00:12:02,629 --> 00:11:59,920
what happened that day he's pretty

245
00:12:05,990 --> 00:12:02,639
certain now that it was an f-86

246
00:12:07,269 --> 00:12:06,000
uh that he was flying not an f94 so then

247
00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:07,279
the critics

248
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:09,920
latch on the fact that in his original

249
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:12,399
testimony to nightcap

250
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,600
um that he gave that he said it was an

251
00:12:21,269 --> 00:12:18,000
f94 and now he's seeing an f1

252
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:21,279
f86 you know so there's they're

253
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,320
attacking his credibility based on

254
00:12:29,430 --> 00:12:27,120
some memory gaps admittedly that he that

255
00:12:31,990 --> 00:12:29,440
he had there

256
00:12:34,230 --> 00:12:32,000
but like ruben said different

257
00:12:35,110 --> 00:12:34,240
researchers have different viewpoints on

258
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this

259
00:12:40,389 --> 00:12:38,160
and but we don't necessarily

260
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:40,399
take a position either way in our book

261
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:42,160
we tell the kernel story

262
00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:44,000
and we leave it up to the reader to

263
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:46,480
decide its veracity

264
00:12:50,389 --> 00:12:48,480
we don't really take a position in our

265
00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:50,399
books we present the evidence as it's

266
00:12:54,550 --> 00:12:52,399
presented to us by the witnesses by the

267
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documents and we leave it up to

268
00:12:57,990 --> 00:12:56,959
you all to decide we think it's a

269
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:58,000
credible case

270
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:01,120
we spent many times many

271
00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:03,600
hours in colonel willingham's home in

272
00:13:08,150 --> 00:13:05,360
north texas

273
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:08,160
we visited with him across his dining

274
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room table

275
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:12,480
we looked the man in in the eye for

276
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hours

277
00:13:19,269 --> 00:13:16,399
and we felt that he was credible

278
00:13:20,069 --> 00:13:19,279
and that he had no motivation he refused

279
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to accept

280
00:13:25,990 --> 00:13:23,120
any sort of compensation of any kind

281
00:13:26,710 --> 00:13:26,000
from the publication of our books he did

282
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not

283
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:30,240
ask us for anything to tell his story

284
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so we felt the man was credible and his

285
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:34,399
story was credible

286
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:37,920
and that's why we wrote the book

287
00:13:43,189 --> 00:13:41,760
right thank you noe uh we'll go on uh

288
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:43,199
those should the information that he

289
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:44,800
shared with us

290
00:13:49,829 --> 00:13:47,600
again he was a captain in the united

291
00:13:52,870 --> 00:13:49,839
states air force reserve

292
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:52,880
born august 15 1926

293
00:13:59,189 --> 00:13:56,480
in holiday texas he served in world war

294
00:14:03,110 --> 00:13:59,199
ii with the army's 82nd airborne he was

295
00:14:04,870 --> 00:14:03,120
part of the 280th combat engineers

296
00:14:06,230 --> 00:14:04,880
it also served under general patton

297
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,240
participated in the postal working

298
00:14:10,230 --> 00:14:08,160
reconstruction of berlin

299
00:14:12,389 --> 00:14:10,240
he later transferred to the united

300
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:12,399
states air force in 1950 for the korean

301
00:14:16,069 --> 00:14:13,279
war

302
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:16,079
he flew p-51 mustangs in korea until he

303
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,040
was wounded on

304
00:14:24,710 --> 00:14:20,320
december of 1950

305
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:24,720
okay and then this is his story

306
00:14:32,389 --> 00:14:27,920
which goes back to his state that

307
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:32,399
this particular event happened in 1955

308
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:35,120
he was fi he was flying in air combat

309
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:35,920
mission

310
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:38,880
where they uh we go to the next audio

311
00:14:43,750 --> 00:14:40,800
right now oh there is okay go ahead

312
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:43,760
we have an audio eclipse with this where

313
00:14:49,829 --> 00:14:46,800
he just tells the story

314
00:14:52,710 --> 00:14:49,839
oh okay you want to set the scene yes uh

315
00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:52,720
during that uh time there were a number

316
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:53,600
of

317
00:14:58,389 --> 00:14:56,480
uh exercises being conducted by

318
00:15:01,030 --> 00:14:58,399
strategic air command

319
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:01,040
and normally when they fly over they do

320
00:15:07,110 --> 00:15:03,279
these exercises during the cold war

321
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,120
you know simulating air warfare

322
00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:09,199
and particularly flying over the

323
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:10,160
southwest

324
00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:13,199
as they are coming and bombing simulated

325
00:15:18,069 --> 00:15:14,320
cities that uh

326
00:15:20,230 --> 00:15:18,079
in his in the soviet union at that time

327
00:15:22,790 --> 00:15:20,240
and normally they would have a fighter

328
00:15:26,069 --> 00:15:22,800
escort and willingham was a part of that

329
00:15:27,750 --> 00:15:26,079
where they flew close to a group of b-47

330
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:27,760
bombers let's see if we can get the

331
00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:33,910
i just want to make a note the purple in

332
00:15:39,030 --> 00:15:34,800
this map

333
00:15:42,230 --> 00:15:39,040
is the route of of this um

334
00:15:44,870 --> 00:15:42,240
of these the bombers the bomber being

335
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:44,880
escorted by the f-86s

336
00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:49,040
going from fort worth down to el paso

337
00:15:55,269 --> 00:15:52,160
and it was right around

338
00:15:56,069 --> 00:15:55,279
north of here that they encountered this

339
00:15:59,430 --> 00:15:56,079
strange

340
00:15:59,829 --> 00:15:59,440
light that looked like a very bright

341
00:16:02,389 --> 00:15:59,839
light

342
00:16:04,069 --> 00:16:02,399
close up in the daytime as we're going

343
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:04,079
to hear in a moment

344
00:16:12,870 --> 00:16:09,519
in the colonel's own words

345
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:12,880
yeah we were in texas the aircraft that

346
00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:14,000
we were flying

347
00:16:26,069 --> 00:16:17,440
trucker was out of uh new york

348
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,069
one of the uh bomber pilots called me

349
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:32,560
and said what is that you see up in

350
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:33,920
front of a sarah

351
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:37,199
about another 20 degrees and i looked up

352
00:16:42,069 --> 00:16:38,480
right a great big

353
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:42,079
look like stars you know and i said no

354
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,079
that's not no stars

355
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:46,639
and about that time it made that 90

356
00:16:51,189 --> 00:16:47,279
degree

357
00:16:54,629 --> 00:16:51,199
turn to the right and running about 2

358
00:16:59,110 --> 00:16:54,639
000 miles an hour and i knew that was no

359
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:01,749
okay so he's describing about the bright

360
00:17:06,069 --> 00:17:03,680
object that was flying over

361
00:17:07,510 --> 00:17:06,079
close to the air group and made that

362
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:07,520
turn and it was heading toward the

363
00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:14,630
well i was thinking at the time they did

364
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:15,280
that

365
00:17:22,710 --> 00:17:21,039
oregon somewhere or washington they'd

366
00:17:24,549 --> 00:17:22,720
come on the radio and say

367
00:17:26,549 --> 00:17:24,559
that i don't believe they were talking

368
00:17:29,669 --> 00:17:26,559
to my the people i would

369
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:29,679
give that came a little later and

370
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:33,120
they asked about if are you saying it

371
00:17:39,669 --> 00:17:36,160
and that's when the b-47 pilot said yes

372
00:17:40,630 --> 00:17:39,679
we got contact with us yeah and then all

373
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:40,640
it once did

374
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:45,919
made that 90-degree turn and took off

375
00:17:49,669 --> 00:17:46,640
and

376
00:17:50,070 --> 00:17:49,679
as he was flying then uh he was a bright

377
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:50,080
light

378
00:17:57,750 --> 00:17:54,720
and then he

379
00:18:00,630 --> 00:17:57,760
noticed that as it was descending it was

380
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,640
flying over the over the year the border

381
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:02,160
and later it crashed so

382
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:05,039
we have the uh his his testimony is in

383
00:18:09,909 --> 00:18:06,080
our interview

384
00:18:12,310 --> 00:18:09,919
well it kind of looked like uh at first

385
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:12,320
you know like a star doesn't check it

386
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:13,280
was closer

387
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:16,240
sorry right real bright light any color

388
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:16,720
uh

389
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:19,200
there was a little amber looking color

390
00:18:22,630 --> 00:18:19,919
in there

391
00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:22,640
or once or i thought it was but i didn't

392
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:24,160
take my owl face

393
00:18:28,150 --> 00:18:27,360
you know yeah just a very bright and i'd

394
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:28,160
say

395
00:18:32,710 --> 00:18:31,039
before it made the 90 degree turn it

396
00:18:35,909 --> 00:18:32,720
would look like it was that big

397
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,919
to me right there but no killing it

398
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:36,880
might have been

399
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:40,080
40 miles back over somewhere 80 right

400
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:43,440
you never know

401
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:46,799
okay so go ahead

402
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:49,760
reuben if you'll talk uh tell folks

403
00:18:52,470 --> 00:18:50,400
you've got

404
00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:52,480
over 30 years experience investigating

405
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,480
ufos

406
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:56,160
one of the characteristics is a

407
00:18:59,669 --> 00:18:57,919
non-ballistic motion

408
00:19:01,750 --> 00:18:59,679
you know where they're zigging and

409
00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:01,760
zagging all over the sky the human body

410
00:19:05,990 --> 00:19:02,640
could not

411
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,000
take the stresses of the aircraft making

412
00:19:10,310 --> 00:19:08,480
making such sudden changes right

413
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:10,320
exactly what the way he described

414
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:11,919
especially during that time now we're

415
00:19:15,830 --> 00:19:14,000
looking at back in the 50s

416
00:19:18,950 --> 00:19:15,840
we didn't we do not have the course of

417
00:19:20,390 --> 00:19:18,960
technology that we do now uh back then

418
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:20,400
where they could make these abrupt

419
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,080
changes

420
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:25,200
at a rapid velocity so this would struck

421
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:25,840
him

422
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:27,600
that was very odd he says we have

423
00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:29,760
nothing like that uh during

424
00:19:36,070 --> 00:19:32,240
during the time when i was in the in the

425
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,390
and about that time it made that 90

426
00:19:43,270 --> 00:19:40,160
degree turn to the right

427
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:43,280
and uh during about 2 000 miles an hour

428
00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:46,480
and i knew that was no airplane and uh

429
00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:48,960
went on over a little bit and i said

430
00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:50,720
when we get through here i'm going to go

431
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:52,320
look at that and now

432
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:55,280
so they went on to uh washington state

433
00:19:59,029 --> 00:19:55,919
washington

434
00:19:59,669 --> 00:19:59,039
and another fighter escort get them up

435
00:20:02,549 --> 00:19:59,679
over there

436
00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:02,559
about the line of uh arizona and i

437
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,080
turned around went back to

438
00:20:08,470 --> 00:20:06,880
fort worth and then i got a small plane

439
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:08,480
and went down there where that thing

440
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:09,039
looked like

441
00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:15,669
so now he's going to be flying over that

442
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:16,960
area to examine

443
00:20:23,750 --> 00:20:20,480
the crash

444
00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:23,760
uh i could uh i seen warriors hit

445
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:27,280
while i was crying and uh i told the

446
00:20:31,669 --> 00:20:29,520
commander i was gonna fly over it and

447
00:20:32,390 --> 00:20:31,679
come back and they said okay yeah we

448
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:32,400
won't know what

449
00:20:41,830 --> 00:20:41,110
800 feet you're not allowed to do that

450
00:20:44,549 --> 00:20:41,840
you know

451
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:44,559
and anyway i go down there where i can

452
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:46,320
see what i was seeing got out

453
00:21:04,549 --> 00:21:03,830
so basically uh as he flew over the

454
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:04,559
crash

455
00:21:10,310 --> 00:21:07,760
uh he had permission to do that um

456
00:21:12,149 --> 00:21:10,320
what later on what he noticed he was low

457
00:21:13,909 --> 00:21:12,159
on fuel

458
00:21:15,510 --> 00:21:13,919
and then he returned back to his air

459
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:15,520
base and then he

460
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:17,200
flew back in a small airplane with

461
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:19,600
another gentleman uh perkins of one of

462
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:19,919
his

463
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:22,640
engineers and he flew back to the crash

464
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:23,679
scene

465
00:21:27,270 --> 00:21:25,200
and they actually landed on the rio

466
00:21:29,510 --> 00:21:27,280
grande river and so he's going to

467
00:21:33,110 --> 00:21:29,520
continue with his story

468
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:35,669
he uh it was coming across her and it

469
00:21:40,230 --> 00:21:37,120
made a 90 degree

470
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:40,240
turn at 2 000 miles an hour there was a

471
00:21:45,510 --> 00:21:42,159
lot of sparks looked like

472
00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:45,520
and it tilted down about a 45 degree

473
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:46,240
angle

474
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:52,789
one interesting thing about colonel

475
00:21:57,190 --> 00:21:54,960
willingham is we went back and looked at

476
00:21:59,669 --> 00:21:57,200
the original testimony he gave as far

477
00:22:03,270 --> 00:21:59,679
back as the 1960s

478
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:03,280
and we compared it with what he told us

479
00:22:09,110 --> 00:22:05,440
over the course of many months

480
00:22:11,510 --> 00:22:09,120
and everything is exactly the same

481
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:11,520
i mean except for a few minor details

482
00:22:14,149 --> 00:22:13,440
like i mentioned the type of aircraft he

483
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:14,159
was flying

484
00:22:17,430 --> 00:22:16,000
that the critics have really latched on

485
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:17,440
to the core

486
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:21,360
of his story has remained unchanged

487
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,799
and um he told people from the beginning

488
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,559
another thing that critics have latched

489
00:22:29,830 --> 00:22:28,799
on to is the date his confusion and the

490
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:29,840
dates

491
00:22:34,950 --> 00:22:32,320
he told investigators ufo investigators

492
00:22:39,350 --> 00:22:34,960
very early on in the 60s

493
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,360
that he did not recall the exact date

494
00:22:42,549 --> 00:22:41,840
that this incident happened he told

495
00:22:44,789 --> 00:22:42,559
reuben and

496
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:44,799
and me we were sitting at his dining

497
00:22:48,630 --> 00:22:45,679
room table

498
00:22:49,909 --> 00:22:48,640
there in north texas and just outside of

499
00:22:53,430 --> 00:22:49,919
wichita falls

500
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:53,440
he he lived in archer city at that time

501
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,720
he told us that he said man this

502
00:23:00,310 --> 00:22:58,559
this whole thing took place in just a

503
00:23:03,830 --> 00:23:00,320
couple of hours of my life

504
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:03,840
many many years ago so um you know the

505
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:04,240
ex

506
00:23:11,669 --> 00:23:09,960
but he's fairly certain that it was in

507
00:23:13,750 --> 00:23:11,679
1955.

508
00:23:16,070 --> 00:23:13,760
but he told investigators as i mentioned

509
00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:16,080
early on he didn't have an exact date

510
00:23:21,350 --> 00:23:17,440
that he could tell him

511
00:23:23,990 --> 00:23:21,360
but some dates were assigned to this

512
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:24,000
by ufo investigators that he had nothing

513
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,640
to do with

514
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:26,960
claiming that it happened on that date

515
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,320
and that's why

516
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,640
another reason that his story is often

517
00:23:36,070 --> 00:23:32,640
criticized by

518
00:23:40,950 --> 00:23:36,080
um various ufo researchers

519
00:23:43,590 --> 00:23:40,960
including our friend um which one

520
00:23:45,909 --> 00:23:43,600
let's go let's go move on we won't

521
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:45,919
mention it

522
00:23:50,870 --> 00:23:48,240
the river comes up there within well i

523
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:50,880
say three quarters or a mile

524
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:54,159
back toward judge roy beans play and

525
00:24:02,390 --> 00:23:58,799
uh it was just hit just about 100 feet

526
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:04,870
so this is very close to where uh that

527
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:06,000
area there

528
00:24:10,870 --> 00:24:09,440
where judge roy being in langtree

529
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:10,880
and this is on the u.s side of the

530
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:12,720
border and that's about the point of

531
00:24:17,669 --> 00:24:14,159
impact that he told us where the

532
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:17,679
uh the ufo had crashed if you go out

533
00:24:21,269 --> 00:24:18,159
there

534
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:21,279
this weekend is over

535
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,400
uh there's a high plateau

536
00:24:28,149 --> 00:24:26,559
there's a high plateau if you if you

537
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:28,159
stand here at this loop

538
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:29,840
right on the edge of the river and look

539
00:24:34,950 --> 00:24:32,080
across there's a high plateau

540
00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:34,960
kind of a cliffs right here and then

541
00:24:39,190 --> 00:24:36,320
there's a flat

542
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:39,200
area up on top colonel willingham we

543
00:24:43,430 --> 00:24:40,080
were showing him

544
00:24:46,149 --> 00:24:43,440
we were in his home on this tv

545
00:24:47,750 --> 00:24:46,159
we were showing him satellite maps that

546
00:24:49,669 --> 00:24:47,760
i had pre-recorded because

547
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,679
he didn't have internet in his home and

548
00:24:54,310 --> 00:24:51,360
didn't know how to use it

549
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:54,320
but we zoomed in on google maps and

550
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,200
showed him

551
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:57,520
and he pinpointed this location right

552
00:25:02,789 --> 00:24:58,640
here

553
00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:02,799
aircraft

554
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:05,360
and this is where he was he saw all the

555
00:25:17,510 --> 00:25:14,480
wreckage and the debris

556
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:17,520
this is a google maps zoom in

557
00:25:40,549 --> 00:25:25,350
and through the magic of the internet

558
00:25:44,950 --> 00:25:43,350
there's this strange pattern there in

559
00:25:56,070 --> 00:25:44,960
the soil

560
00:25:59,110 --> 00:25:56,080
that still exists today

561
00:26:02,789 --> 00:25:59,120
the impact okay i went back then uh

562
00:26:04,870 --> 00:26:02,799
put my aircraft up went over the c8p

563
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,880
place and got one of those little light

564
00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:07,200
planes and we flew it down there

565
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:11,600
a neronica no lights no radios no

566
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:14,880
it was just a simple airplane we lucky

567
00:26:20,310 --> 00:26:18,640
to get it back in those days too

568
00:26:21,669 --> 00:26:20,320
so these were the simple little planes

569
00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:21,679
that they were flying

570
00:26:26,549 --> 00:26:24,640
he mentioned cap civil air patrol and he

571
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:26,559
was also connected with them

572
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:28,640
again they this is a very lightweight

573
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:30,080
airplane with no

574
00:26:36,070 --> 00:26:32,320
instrumentation and so this is what they

575
00:26:39,190 --> 00:26:38,789
i'd say there was probably a platoon of

576
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:39,200
them

577
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:42,640
uh you know enlisted type and the rest

578
00:26:46,630 --> 00:26:43,120
of them

579
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:46,640
were uh government and uh officers

580
00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:50,080
and there was about 15 or 20 of them and

581
00:26:54,149 --> 00:26:51,679
yeah they were just looking at

582
00:26:57,990 --> 00:26:54,159
everything and because it was still

583
00:26:58,950 --> 00:26:58,000
red hot and uh they were staying back

584
00:27:01,029 --> 00:26:58,960
pretty close

585
00:27:03,269 --> 00:27:01,039
i told one of my i said they better not

586
00:27:05,750 --> 00:27:03,279
grab a hold of that that stuff's still

587
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:05,760
red hot

588
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:08,320
well when uh he got out of his airplane

589
00:27:11,430 --> 00:27:08,799
both

590
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:11,440
him and mr perkins uh they found that

591
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,440
the crash site was already surrounded by

592
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:15,200
mexican soldiers

593
00:27:18,549 --> 00:27:17,200
and he was they already had a security

594
00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:18,559
ring around them

595
00:27:22,149 --> 00:27:20,720
one of the interesting things that uh he

596
00:27:26,549 --> 00:27:22,159
shared with noe

597
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,559
and and i uh was the fact that uh

598
00:27:29,669 --> 00:27:28,799
the crash site was still smoldering

599
00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:29,679
there was still

600
00:27:33,590 --> 00:27:32,799
some flames and smoke but it was getting

601
00:27:37,269 --> 00:27:33,600
very cold

602
00:27:39,510 --> 00:27:37,279
as we're dealing with the cold today and

603
00:27:41,990 --> 00:27:39,520
what he did was he noticed that there

604
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:42,000
was one mexican soldier putting a warm

605
00:27:45,669 --> 00:27:43,360
blanket

606
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:45,679
right over over one of the pieces of the

607
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,880
wreckage where it was still

608
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:48,720
hot and then he would grab and wrap it

609
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:50,559
around and he said

610
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:52,799
i don't think that's a good idea you

611
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,440
know this that thing may be radioactive

612
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:57,360
that was his concern so it was a little

613
00:28:01,990 --> 00:27:58,960
side point that i got a kick out of

614
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,000
listening to that

615
00:28:05,990 --> 00:28:04,799
he also told us that at another place of

616
00:28:08,389 --> 00:28:06,000
the impact zone

617
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,399
there was some smoldering wreckage and

618
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,080
some of the soldiers were just warming

619
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:12,080
their hands over the

620
00:28:22,549 --> 00:28:21,430
yeah he drew this kid this is actual

621
00:28:24,630 --> 00:28:22,559
drawing and

622
00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:24,640
noe was able to add in the additional

623
00:28:33,909 --> 00:28:31,029
his drawing wreckage with this with as

624
00:28:35,669 --> 00:28:33,919
noise mentioned we put in the labels

625
00:28:36,950 --> 00:28:35,679
but there's there you see the river

626
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:36,960
where his airplane

627
00:28:41,510 --> 00:28:39,679
landed approximately and then the

628
00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:41,520
perimeter of the soldiers

629
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:50,389
let me just mention there was a skid

630
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:51,279
this skid

631
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:55,600
path or a furrow in the ground

632
00:28:59,430 --> 00:28:58,320
where he he felt that the object had

633
00:29:01,750 --> 00:28:59,440
impacted

634
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,760
and then it had it had gone skidding

635
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,360
along here

636
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,919
and then the wreckage the debris field

637
00:29:10,549 --> 00:29:07,600
was mostly in this large

638
00:29:11,269 --> 00:29:10,559
circle here but then the major part of

639
00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:11,279
it

640
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:14,720
ended up

641
00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:21,750
colonel willingham uh said that the

642
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:24,080
mexican soldiers were waiting for the

643
00:29:28,149 --> 00:29:24,720
u.s

644
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:28,159
air force to arrive

645
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:29,840
so apparently there had been some

646
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,799
coordination there

647
00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:34,960
what reuben and i have felt was more

648
00:29:39,110 --> 00:29:37,200
like most likely the case is we had a

649
00:29:42,389 --> 00:29:39,120
lot of experimental rockets that went

650
00:29:44,950 --> 00:29:42,399
into northern mexico

651
00:29:45,830 --> 00:29:44,960
both before and after this incident so

652
00:29:50,870 --> 00:29:45,840
the

653
00:29:54,149 --> 00:29:50,880
recover a downed experimental craft

654
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,159
or missile could have been used as a

655
00:29:57,190 --> 00:29:56,000
justification

656
00:29:59,510 --> 00:29:57,200
to coordinate with the mexican

657
00:30:02,710 --> 00:29:59,520
government to go in and recover

658
00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:02,720
the u.s hot downed hardware or so the

659
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:08,950
so right around here was the initial

660
00:30:11,990 --> 00:30:09,760
bounce

661
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:12,000
point according to willingham the

662
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:14,480
mexican vehicles when he arrived were

663
00:30:21,590 --> 00:30:18,000
parked here in this area and

664
00:30:22,870 --> 00:30:21,600
um so they were just waiting for the u.s

665
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:22,880
air force to arrive

666
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:29,029
so we have some other interesting videos

667
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,080
and interviews

668
00:30:34,870 --> 00:30:32,559
of willingham's experience so you can

669
00:30:37,110 --> 00:30:34,880
move on to the next there

670
00:30:40,230 --> 00:30:37,120
we're talking with colonel willingham

671
00:30:42,149 --> 00:30:40,240
about a day in 1955 that is uh

672
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,159
utterly extraordinary and the story is

673
00:30:46,310 --> 00:30:44,080
all the more extraordinary because

674
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:46,320
he lived it he was in the air force he

675
00:30:50,070 --> 00:30:48,080
is telling the story now and there are

676
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:50,080
so many people in the military who know

677
00:30:53,750 --> 00:30:51,200
things see things

678
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,760
experience things participate in things

679
00:30:57,430 --> 00:30:55,279
who take it with them

680
00:30:58,950 --> 00:30:57,440
this is one of the men who did not do

681
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:58,960
that and we are

682
00:31:02,070 --> 00:31:00,880
eminently and eternally grateful for

683
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:02,080
this information

684
00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:03,440
all right colonel willingham if you

685
00:31:09,269 --> 00:31:06,120
would sir please take it from the top

686
00:31:12,710 --> 00:31:09,279
1955 what was happening on that day

687
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:12,720
when this whole thing began to unroll

688
00:31:19,990 --> 00:31:16,840
uh we were assigned to a

689
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:20,000
wingtip watch over a

690
00:31:30,470 --> 00:31:24,960
47 that left up in new york

691
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:41,430
come to

692
00:31:45,110 --> 00:31:43,909
okay and why were you flying cover for a

693
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,120
b-47

694
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,600
no i wasn't told why i was supposed to

695
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:49,919
it just told it

696
00:31:54,789 --> 00:31:52,480
i'll bet you uh we're just told to do it

697
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,799
could it possibly be that that b-47 was

698
00:31:57,990 --> 00:31:56,399
carrying a certain something in its

699
00:32:01,029 --> 00:31:58,000
bombay

700
00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:01,039
it could have had okay it's a pretty

701
00:32:05,350 --> 00:32:02,799
heavy one too i think

702
00:32:05,909 --> 00:32:05,360
just fishing all right so you're flying

703
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:05,919
cover

704
00:32:12,549 --> 00:32:10,320
now you and how many uh fellow pilots

705
00:32:15,029 --> 00:32:12,559
all right four over seven dollars were

706
00:32:19,509 --> 00:32:15,039
you boxing

707
00:32:22,549 --> 00:32:19,519
in front rear and side to side

708
00:32:24,789 --> 00:32:22,559
yeah just exactly all right

709
00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:24,799
i got the picture now b47 for any of you

710
00:32:29,830 --> 00:32:26,480
who want to know can simply

711
00:32:32,230 --> 00:32:29,840
type in b-47 the new

712
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,240
numerals on any search engine you'll see

713
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:33,600
a picture of this uh

714
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,720
this jet uh bomber uh which is carrying

715
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:38,640
obviously a very special cargo at that

716
00:32:42,070 --> 00:32:39,760
time on that day

717
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,080
all right sir go right ahead we flying

718
00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:44,080
along there and uh

719
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:47,760
my buddy back there sit on my unicorn

720
00:32:53,269 --> 00:32:50,159
between the aircraft

721
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:53,279
uh he said hey look at that big

722
00:33:00,710 --> 00:32:59,669
and i looked at it and now everybody

723
00:33:05,190 --> 00:33:00,720
else looked at it

724
00:33:07,750 --> 00:33:05,200
and i said you sure that's the star

725
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,760
i said it looks me like it's something

726
00:33:12,789 --> 00:33:08,960
else

727
00:33:16,389 --> 00:33:12,799
and it was real bright finally it

728
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:16,399
made a 90 degree turn at 2

729
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:19,279
000 miles an hour and i didn't figure it

730
00:33:22,310 --> 00:33:20,080
was

731
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:22,320
well shooting stars and meteorites don't

732
00:33:26,630 --> 00:33:23,440
change course

733
00:33:29,669 --> 00:33:26,640
not like that that's right

734
00:33:33,190 --> 00:33:29,679
so uh i asked the

735
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:33,200
captain on the 47th [\h__\h]

736
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:35,200
trace and see where he was going because

737
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:36,799
we didn't know what it was

738
00:33:39,990 --> 00:33:38,960
he he came back a few minutes he said

739
00:33:43,110 --> 00:33:40,000
yeah go ahead

740
00:33:45,830 --> 00:33:43,120
just do though not the rest of them

741
00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:45,840
so i took off down there and when i got

742
00:33:50,230 --> 00:33:46,880
to wherever that's

743
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:50,240
right below lane tree texas

744
00:33:56,389 --> 00:33:53,600
on the uh over on the mexican side

745
00:33:57,830 --> 00:33:56,399
that thing actually just took an uh

746
00:34:00,310 --> 00:33:57,840
absolute flat on out

747
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,320
90 degree change in direction at 2 000

748
00:34:03,990 --> 00:34:02,640
miles an hour leaving a contrail of some

749
00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:04,000
kind behind it

750
00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:06,320
correct right that must have just

751
00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:08,079
knocked your eyeballs

752
00:34:15,990 --> 00:34:12,079
it sure did i was hoping to have one by

753
00:34:19,030 --> 00:34:16,000
the next year that i could fly myself

754
00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:19,040
spoken like a true aviator hero that's

755
00:34:22,069 --> 00:34:20,159
great

756
00:34:24,069 --> 00:34:22,079
all right so it makes a 90 degree turn

757
00:34:26,470 --> 00:34:24,079
at that point did it begin to descend

758
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:26,480
below your flight altitude

759
00:34:33,990 --> 00:34:30,240
yes sure did we fly along about 35

760
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:34,000
000 at that time it i took off

761
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:37,760
after it and it all hit just about

762
00:34:44,310 --> 00:34:40,879
time i got about halfway there okay

763
00:34:44,710 --> 00:34:44,320
you you it dropped below you and then i

764
00:34:53,669 --> 00:34:44,720
had

765
00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:53,679
and that time the mexican

766
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:56,399
government had started uh sending in

767
00:35:00,150 --> 00:34:58,000
their crews over

768
00:35:02,390 --> 00:35:00,160
all right so by the time you took your

769
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,400
five to eight minutes to drop down

770
00:35:05,430 --> 00:35:04,720
to get close to the deck to see this

771
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:05,440
thing

772
00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:08,800
which uh you could tell i guess from uh

773
00:35:13,349 --> 00:35:11,440
before you got the head come in for some

774
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:13,359
kind of an impact landing

775
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:16,960
well i don't think it was trying to land

776
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,920
i think he'd already lost control of it

777
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:21,359
let's see

778
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:28,390
as you're coming down toward the rio

779
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:31,040
grande river and you're coming down

780
00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:33,359
and this thing is on the ground as you

781
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:34,640
approach it

782
00:35:42,069 --> 00:35:38,560
what do you see exactly i just seen

783
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:42,079
where he had hip about 100 yards

784
00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:45,280
up from the water bank

785
00:35:49,750 --> 00:35:48,560
and uh kind of bounced the cuff few

786
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:49,760
times

787
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:52,800
and just kept on going i'd say it went

788
00:35:58,790 --> 00:35:55,920
out through there about a thousand yards

789
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:58,800
did you actually see it colonel hit the

790
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:00,800
ground

791
00:36:05,030 --> 00:36:04,320
well i i didn't actually see it hit the

792
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:05,040
ground i

793
00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:08,320
think when it finally got stopped

794
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:11,119
i had got that close i said i could see

795
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:11,520
it

796
00:36:18,390 --> 00:36:16,320
there

797
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:18,400
when i seen it now you're flying your

798
00:36:23,829 --> 00:36:20,560
f-86 down

799
00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:23,839
you see the object on the ground uh it

800
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:26,079
had been down for no more than maybe 30

801
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:27,760
seconds by the time you flew over it

802
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:29,839
something like that that's right

803
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:33,359
i made one circle around it all right

804
00:36:38,829 --> 00:36:35,760
and looked it over and then i headed

805
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,310
job after the b-47

806
00:36:46,630 --> 00:36:44,400
yesterday all right so you had to climb

807
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:46,640
way back up to 35 000 feet or

808
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:48,480
thereabouts to assume your position in

809
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:49,440
that box

810
00:36:53,589 --> 00:36:51,760
formation of security around the b-47

811
00:37:01,510 --> 00:36:53,599
bomber

812
00:37:05,109 --> 00:37:01,520
nearly got to el paso all right

813
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:05,119
and they were going to take another team

814
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:09,599
to fly a wing for it on uh

815
00:37:15,750 --> 00:37:13,200
arizona okay i understand so uh

816
00:37:17,910 --> 00:37:15,760
they called and told me said no you can

817
00:37:19,589 --> 00:37:17,920
go on back to the base

818
00:37:22,710 --> 00:37:19,599
and you want to go out there and look at

819
00:37:26,310 --> 00:37:22,720
that anyway and i said yes i do

820
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,320
so they i took mine went on back

821
00:37:29,349 --> 00:37:28,800
and about five minutes after i was there

822
00:37:33,910 --> 00:37:29,359
maybe

823
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:33,920
ten uh the rest of them came on in

824
00:37:38,310 --> 00:37:36,400
and you landed your other three squadron

825
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:38,320
uh mates okay

826
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:41,200
yeah that's where we were stationed at

827
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:43,280
the carsonville air force baby

828
00:37:46,630 --> 00:37:45,599
all right carswell yeah all right when

829
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:46,640
you flew back to

830
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:49,920
carswell uh check your f-86

831
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:52,640
in and then went back to the crash

832
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,920
location

833
00:37:57,349 --> 00:37:56,640
of this disc you had seen come down to

834
00:37:59,589 --> 00:37:57,359
earth

835
00:38:01,589 --> 00:37:59,599
and hit the deck about a hundred yards

836
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,599
from the rio grande river

837
00:38:05,670 --> 00:38:04,320
we'll do that get in trouble all the

838
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:05,680
time too

839
00:38:09,349 --> 00:38:07,680
all right you hang on this is a great

840
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:09,359
story i'll tell you about that in a

841
00:38:13,030 --> 00:38:10,320
minute

842
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:13,040
yeah i parked the car i got in the car

843
00:38:18,790 --> 00:38:16,079
it went down the course you cannot

844
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:18,800
where i used to fly out of that base

845
00:38:24,230 --> 00:38:19,599
down there

846
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:24,240
right and picked up a light aircraft

847
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:27,520
and flew down to where the

848
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:30,560
crash was so i went on down there and

849
00:38:37,510 --> 00:38:33,920
found the places clean enough i could

850
00:38:40,150 --> 00:38:37,520
sit down and i sat down

851
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:40,160
and uh did you have any trouble finding

852
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:41,920
the location of the crash from the air

853
00:38:47,430 --> 00:38:44,400
you remembered it pretty clearly i guess

854
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:47,440
yes i did i still got it right in my

855
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:48,720
mind right now

856
00:38:53,430 --> 00:38:52,160
all right you just go from lane tree

857
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:53,440
texas

858
00:38:59,910 --> 00:38:56,880
okay right straight to the river

859
00:39:00,790 --> 00:38:59,920
and just on the other side of it was

860
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,800
where it hit

861
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:02,400
all right you landed how close to the

862
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:05,040
crash itself

863
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:08,480
i'd say i was about 150 200

864
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:10,800
george that's damn close okay when you

865
00:39:15,910 --> 00:39:13,520
got there what did you see

866
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:15,920
well i started up there and here come

867
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:17,040
all these

868
00:39:22,230 --> 00:39:20,240
spanish uh soldiers

869
00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:22,240
coming running over and they're all

870
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:24,079
armed

871
00:39:29,109 --> 00:39:27,200
and i put up my hands like uh

872
00:39:31,750 --> 00:39:29,119
being arrested you know or something

873
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:31,760
really were you still in uniform

874
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,880
yeah i'm still on my flight suit did you

875
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:35,839
see the crew

876
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,040
the vehicles on both sides all right

877
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:41,520
could you see the craft itself

878
00:39:45,109 --> 00:39:44,720
yeah yeah i went in there i'm talking to

879
00:39:49,349 --> 00:39:45,119
this

880
00:39:52,390 --> 00:39:49,359
uh spanish uh lieutenant

881
00:39:54,710 --> 00:39:52,400
uh anyway i talked to him

882
00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:54,720
and we walked down through there and he

883
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:56,320
said i'm

884
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:59,760
proceeding important i said no i either

885
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,119
but i said this

886
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:04,000
that's a little different than some i've

887
00:40:07,190 --> 00:40:04,960
looked at

888
00:40:09,190 --> 00:40:07,200
all right so the tenant gets there you

889
00:40:09,990 --> 00:40:09,200
walk up to the craft itself how close

890
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,000
did you get to

891
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:12,800
it colonel i i walked right up and

892
00:40:21,270 --> 00:40:19,109
this was this has been one of uh jeff

893
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:21,280
franz's most popular

894
00:40:25,510 --> 00:40:24,560
uh episodes ever he's told us and people

895
00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:25,520
still

896
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:28,240
downloaded and listened to it from his

897
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:29,440
archives

898
00:40:33,829 --> 00:40:31,520
he was on the jeff friends program march

899
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:33,839
15 2010

900
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:35,520
reuben and i were on with him that

901
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:38,640
evening it was a very special evening

902
00:40:42,470 --> 00:40:41,520
and unfortunately shortly after that his

903
00:40:45,750 --> 00:40:42,480
health took a

904
00:40:48,790 --> 00:40:45,760
radical downturn and um

905
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:48,800
he is not

906
00:40:53,510 --> 00:40:52,079
not doing too well and

907
00:40:55,109 --> 00:40:53,520
we only have them for a short amount of

908
00:40:57,270 --> 00:40:55,119
time so

909
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,280
uh but the other thing that i wanted to

910
00:41:01,510 --> 00:40:59,680
note is the level of detail

911
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:01,520
you know jeff rents would ask him about

912
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:03,119
something and he would correct them and

913
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:03,599
say no

914
00:41:09,910 --> 00:41:06,720
actually at that point the b

915
00:41:12,390 --> 00:41:09,920
47 had moved on to el paso and we were

916
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:12,400
i was told to report back debate so i

917
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,520
mean

918
00:41:17,990 --> 00:41:16,160
the level of detail also that he gave us

919
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:18,000
throughout our interview sessions with

920
00:41:21,670 --> 00:41:19,280
him

921
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,680
the fact that he had in his mind a

922
00:41:26,309 --> 00:41:23,599
precise order of events

923
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,319
that he was going through which matches

924
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:28,319
what he told other investigators as far

925
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:29,200
back as

926
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:33,359
the mid 60s to me reuben indicates that

927
00:41:36,790 --> 00:41:34,240
this gentleman

928
00:41:38,630 --> 00:41:36,800
that there is credibility absolutely

929
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:38,640
we're going to need to be rushing

930
00:41:41,829 --> 00:41:40,000
because we only have a short amount of

931
00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:41,839
time remaining we're not russians

932
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:45,040
we're not rushing expressions rushing

933
00:41:51,349 --> 00:41:48,319
so anyway thanks but

934
00:41:54,230 --> 00:41:51,359
um the core of the story goes

935
00:41:54,630 --> 00:41:54,240
and you'll hear later that on his way

936
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:54,640
back

937
00:41:59,190 --> 00:41:57,599
he found a p he got a piece of metal and

938
00:42:01,589 --> 00:41:59,200
he put it in his pocket

939
00:42:02,630 --> 00:42:01,599
and later had it retested and found that

940
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:02,640
this metal was

941
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:06,720
not your typical metal found here in in

942
00:42:11,190 --> 00:42:09,839
on earth so that's another part so

943
00:42:12,710 --> 00:42:11,200
you're standing there with your arms up

944
00:42:14,069 --> 00:42:12,720
in your flight suit next to this little

945
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:14,079
private plane

946
00:42:18,550 --> 00:42:16,240
and you're 150 yards away from this

947
00:42:19,990 --> 00:42:18,560
crash disc how many soldiers were there

948
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:20,000
approximately there and were they

949
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:22,800
deployed in a circle around it or what

950
00:42:31,030 --> 00:42:27,359
no it was about uh i'd say 150

951
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:31,040
there when i got there all right already

952
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:34,160
mm-hmm and about 35 vehicles

953
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,599
wow all right could you see the crook

954
00:42:42,630 --> 00:42:40,480
was on both sides all right could you

955
00:42:45,750 --> 00:42:42,640
see the craft itself

956
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:45,760
yeah yeah i went in there i'm talking to

957
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:46,160
this

958
00:42:53,750 --> 00:42:50,720
uh spanish uh lieutenant

959
00:42:56,069 --> 00:42:53,760
uh anyway i talked to him

960
00:42:58,069 --> 00:42:56,079
and we walked down through there and he

961
00:42:58,710 --> 00:42:58,079
said i never seen anything like it

962
00:43:02,309 --> 00:42:58,720
before

963
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:02,319
and i said no i either but i said this

964
00:43:06,790 --> 00:43:05,280
that's a little different than some i've

965
00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:06,800
looked at

966
00:43:14,069 --> 00:43:11,200
this in here had solid some solid pieces

967
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:14,079
still scattered down to there all right

968
00:43:18,550 --> 00:43:15,680
so some of it was intact

969
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,560
did it have any markings or anything on

970
00:43:21,990 --> 00:43:20,720
the exterior or was it just the skin of

971
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:22,000
it

972
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:28,079
well i know i want to get there i want

973
00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:29,599
to get there in just a minute hold on

974
00:43:32,950 --> 00:43:30,880
with that please

975
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:32,960
you're all right you walk up to this

976
00:43:36,390 --> 00:43:34,079
thing well the

977
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:36,400
did the mexicans let you get close to it

978
00:43:39,670 --> 00:43:38,160
or they hold you off a little bit no

979
00:43:41,990 --> 00:43:39,680
they helped me off till

980
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,000
the lieutenant got that prayer i didn't

981
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:44,480
know he got there

982
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:47,040
i don't think they spoke uh very good

983
00:43:50,150 --> 00:43:48,560
english the rest of them

984
00:43:52,390 --> 00:43:50,160
all right i hope they weren't putting

985
00:43:54,550 --> 00:43:52,400
their guns on you all this time

986
00:43:55,430 --> 00:43:54,560
well they haven't reported that

987
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:55,440
direction

988
00:43:59,270 --> 00:43:57,839
i get it i get the picture all right so

989
00:44:01,190 --> 00:43:59,280
the tenant gets there

990
00:44:02,950 --> 00:44:01,200
you walk up to the craft itself how

991
00:44:05,589 --> 00:44:02,960
close did you get to it

992
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,599
colonel i i walked right up and kicked a

993
00:44:10,069 --> 00:44:07,599
piece of it

994
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:10,079
wow all right were you how big was it in

995
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:11,280
diameter

996
00:44:18,550 --> 00:44:15,119
about well

997
00:44:19,670 --> 00:44:18,560
where it hit it was a lot of small

998
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:19,680
pieces like

999
00:44:27,030 --> 00:44:23,520
two foot by eight inches

1000
00:44:30,950 --> 00:44:27,040
uh maybe two foot by twenty eight

1001
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:30,960
inches uh just different pieces off

1002
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:34,160
you know okay then it got on up to where

1003
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:34,839
it

1004
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:46,640
that was real shiny

1005
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:49,200
and i don't know if that was part of the

1006
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:50,000
fuel

1007
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:53,280
consumption part of it

1008
00:45:03,510 --> 00:44:57,280
or what it was but he didn't know either

1009
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:05,670
okay uh one of the interesting parts of

1010
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,560
this is he

1011
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,560
he said that he had a chance just a

1012
00:45:13,349 --> 00:45:10,720
glimpse

1013
00:45:14,710 --> 00:45:13,359
and he was hesitant to tell us about it

1014
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:14,720
uh right away

1015
00:45:18,069 --> 00:45:16,880
it came out later he had a glimpse

1016
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:18,079
inside

1017
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:21,119
a crack in the hull in the skin of the

1018
00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,079
ship

1019
00:45:25,990 --> 00:45:24,720
and he saw some bodies that were clearly

1020
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:26,000
not human

1021
00:45:31,910 --> 00:45:29,200
and i think this is the next clip

1022
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:31,920
was there was there any evidence of any

1023
00:45:36,630 --> 00:45:32,880
life

1024
00:45:40,150 --> 00:45:36,640
dead or alive around that object

1025
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:40,160
uh they were on up front according to

1026
00:45:44,309 --> 00:45:41,359
them

1027
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:44,319
they said don't look like people but

1028
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,000
says we can't let you go up

1029
00:45:52,710 --> 00:45:49,200
or the generals already said no

1030
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:52,720
nobody look at that so they didn't even

1031
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:53,359
let that

1032
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:56,480
the boys it was guarding it look at it

1033
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:59,520
oh really yeah okay so the front of the

1034
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:01,520
craft that impacted the ground

1035
00:46:04,950 --> 00:46:03,839
uh ripped a hole open inside and and

1036
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:04,960
apparently

1037
00:46:08,550 --> 00:46:07,680
people could see in there and there were

1038
00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:08,560
dead

1039
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:10,800
ets or they weren't humans there were

1040
00:46:14,950 --> 00:46:12,800
dead bodies in there of some kind

1041
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:14,960
right right and you couldn't get around

1042
00:46:19,670 --> 00:46:17,200
there to see in there either

1043
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:19,680
well i kind of snuck around a little

1044
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:20,960
you're a sneaky

1045
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,880
fella aren't you all right now tell you

1046
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:24,560
snuck around there a little bit colonel

1047
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:26,960
what did you see

1048
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:30,000
well it didn't look like uh human beings

1049
00:46:33,910 --> 00:46:30,880
to me

1050
00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:33,920
how many of them were there i

1051
00:46:40,069 --> 00:46:37,200
believe they were three and uh

1052
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:40,079
the lieutenant said they were four all

1053
00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:40,400
right

1054
00:46:43,430 --> 00:46:42,640
i never did see the other one were the

1055
00:46:45,910 --> 00:46:43,440
bodies

1056
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:45,920
mangled or were they relatively intact

1057
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:48,319
and what were they dressed in

1058
00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:51,680
well they weren't dressed at all

1059
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:54,000
okay and they were in a lot of different

1060
00:46:57,670 --> 00:46:54,960
pieces

1061
00:46:59,670 --> 00:46:57,680
i didn't see but one that had a complete

1062
00:47:02,390 --> 00:46:59,680
top

1063
00:47:03,589 --> 00:47:02,400
but i wouldn't swear what he was eating

1064
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:03,599
all right what did the

1065
00:47:07,270 --> 00:47:06,400
head look like anything like we've seen

1066
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:07,280
in the common

1067
00:47:10,950 --> 00:47:10,160
research literature the the big eyes the

1068
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,960
smooth skin

1069
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:13,440
or the little mouth did you see anything

1070
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:15,599
yeah at least some of them

1071
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:18,880
it looked like that they they just i

1072
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,240
don't know

1073
00:47:26,950 --> 00:47:23,440
how you explain it but

1074
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:26,960
they just their heads and uh

1075
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:29,760
arms and stuff their arms are a little

1076
00:47:34,790 --> 00:47:31,680
bitty

1077
00:47:38,309 --> 00:47:34,800
uh they look like uh

1078
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:38,319
broomsticks wow okay

1079
00:47:43,430 --> 00:47:41,680
but they have a big uh-huh broomstick

1080
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:43,440
all right no no i got you they had no

1081
00:47:47,270 --> 00:47:45,440
uniform on they were just basically

1082
00:47:49,829 --> 00:47:47,280
skin if that's what their outer covering

1083
00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:49,839
is yeah

1084
00:47:56,069 --> 00:47:53,040
no any evidence of blood

1085
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:56,079
i didn't see any okay but there were

1086
00:48:00,309 --> 00:47:59,040
man i just got the glance in there

1087
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:00,319
because he wouldn't let me go

1088
00:48:04,150 --> 00:48:03,520
look any i just happened to be walking

1089
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:04,160
by

1090
00:48:08,230 --> 00:48:06,480
looking in there you know and he said oh

1091
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:08,240
you can't do that you got to come over

1092
00:48:12,069 --> 00:48:08,800
here

1093
00:48:14,390 --> 00:48:12,079
you're a smart man i'm glad you did you

1094
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:14,400
the colonel actually got a look uh

1095
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:16,720
listeners i'm sure you're right on this

1096
00:48:23,829 --> 00:48:20,240
of uh the occupants of that craft all uh

1097
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,839
dead on impact apparently and we'll come

1098
00:48:27,109 --> 00:48:25,599
right back colonel stand by if you would

1099
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:27,119
please get yourself a drink of water

1100
00:48:30,870 --> 00:48:29,040
you're doing wonderfully here describing

1101
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:30,880
an extraordinary event

1102
00:48:34,630 --> 00:48:32,480
we'll come right back with colonel

1103
00:48:36,390 --> 00:48:34,640
robert willingham in just a couple of

1104
00:48:37,910 --> 00:48:36,400
minutes

1105
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:37,920
if you would like to listen to the

1106
00:48:40,150 --> 00:48:39,440
entire interview you can go to the

1107
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:40,160
jeffren's

1108
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:45,680
website and go into the archives

1109
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,400
to listen to that it was a remarkable

1110
00:48:53,990 --> 00:48:51,040
evening we spent together

1111
00:48:55,670 --> 00:48:54,000
with jeff rentz colonel willingham and

1112
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:55,680
like i say unfortunately we

1113
00:49:00,829 --> 00:48:58,000
we spoken to his caretaker recently and

1114
00:49:02,069 --> 00:49:00,839
he's no longer able to verbalize his

1115
00:49:05,829 --> 00:49:02,079
thoughts

1116
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:05,839
she tells me that she goes there to the

1117
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:08,160
room at the veterans center where he's

1118
00:49:14,390 --> 00:49:12,079
currently housed and she can tell in his

1119
00:49:16,150 --> 00:49:14,400
eyes that he has a lot he wants to say

1120
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:16,160
but he can no longer express

1121
00:49:26,309 --> 00:49:24,150
we basically

1122
00:49:27,829 --> 00:49:26,319
both knowing our we don't really need to

1123
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:27,839
tell you too much because

1124
00:49:32,309 --> 00:49:30,400
the the colonel here in his own words

1125
00:49:34,710 --> 00:49:32,319
shared his story so we're happy to

1126
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:34,720
share his story with you and his words

1127
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:37,520
so now we can go on to the next one

1128
00:49:44,710 --> 00:49:43,990
no go ahead noe we go ahead we only have

1129
00:49:46,950 --> 00:49:44,720
about

1130
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:46,960
10 minutes well let me just summarize

1131
00:49:50,470 --> 00:49:47,839
this part of it

1132
00:49:51,750 --> 00:49:50,480
uh he says that he picked up a piece at

1133
00:49:53,349 --> 00:49:51,760
the wreckage

1134
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,359
it had it had this unique

1135
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:55,040
characteristics mr

1136
00:50:01,750 --> 00:49:58,640
uh colonel willingham actually

1137
00:50:03,190 --> 00:50:01,760
drew these uh images or that the drawing

1138
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:03,200
that you see on the screen

1139
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:05,760
and he said it had these ridges along

1140
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:06,400
one side

1141
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:09,520
and then it had these holes

1142
00:50:16,549 --> 00:50:13,280
line lines of holes sort of like

1143
00:50:20,150 --> 00:50:16,559
something that was designed to dispel

1144
00:50:23,349 --> 00:50:20,160
heat and this is a piece that

1145
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:23,359
obviously had broken off during impact

1146
00:50:27,829 --> 00:50:25,760
but the piece itself was fairly

1147
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:27,839
undamaged in other words

1148
00:50:32,549 --> 00:50:30,400
uh the edges weren't didn't show a great

1149
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:32,559
deal of um

1150
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:40,150
and he had got a hold of it so

1151
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:44,240
much he said everybody's flying on that

1152
00:50:48,230 --> 00:50:44,800
mission

1153
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,240
don't say one word about him so anyway

1154
00:50:51,349 --> 00:50:50,640
he took the uh piece of metal in to be

1155
00:50:54,470 --> 00:50:51,359
analyzed

1156
00:50:56,710 --> 00:50:54,480
at a lab in maryland and then lo and

1157
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:56,720
behold

1158
00:51:02,069 --> 00:50:59,760
uh when he when he called to check back

1159
00:51:05,109 --> 00:51:02,079
on what the analysis had found

1160
00:51:06,870 --> 00:51:05,119
they they claimed that they didn't ever

1161
00:51:08,870 --> 00:51:06,880
they didn't recollect that he had ever

1162
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:08,880
been there to drop the medal off

1163
00:51:13,990 --> 00:51:10,960
and that the person because he named the

1164
00:51:15,829 --> 00:51:14,000
person by name that he gave the medal to

1165
00:51:18,150 --> 00:51:15,839
that that person had never worked at

1166
00:51:20,470 --> 00:51:18,160
that facility before

1167
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:20,480
and that they didn't they claimed they

1168
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:21,440
had no record

1169
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:23,680
and knew nothing of what he was talking

1170
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:25,040
about

1171
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:27,119
um but what was really interesting as

1172
00:51:30,230 --> 00:51:28,720
you'll see in a video clip in a minute

1173
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:30,240
and it'll probably be the last video

1174
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:31,599
clipper will have time

1175
00:51:38,549 --> 00:51:35,040
for he received an anonymous letter

1176
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:38,559
years later that he believes

1177
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:40,559
even though it was unsigned he believes

1178
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:43,040
was from the lab technician that ran the

1179
00:51:47,270 --> 00:51:44,160
analysis

1180
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:49,670
oh and everybody on that flight in the

1181
00:51:55,430 --> 00:51:52,480
b-47 and in the f-86s

1182
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:55,440
was forced to undergo a debriefing in

1183
00:51:59,910 --> 00:51:56,640
which they were told

1184
00:52:03,510 --> 00:51:59,920
not to ever tell of their

1185
00:52:06,549 --> 00:52:03,520
ufo encounter not to ever share

1186
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:06,559
with anyone or they would be quote

1187
00:52:19,589 --> 00:52:16,950
okay actually we don't have the clip but

1188
00:52:21,109 --> 00:52:19,599
where he talks about

1189
00:52:23,270 --> 00:52:21,119
the letter that he received but he

1190
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:23,280
received an anonymous anonymous

1191
00:52:27,670 --> 00:52:25,680
letter which he assumed was from the

1192
00:52:29,589 --> 00:52:27,680
metallurgist who ran the test

1193
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:29,599
that said he had never encountered

1194
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:30,800
anything

1195
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,640
and it did not appear to be from earth

1196
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:36,240
i was thinking oh these are the other

1197
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,720
crash sites

1198
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,480
so we mentioned that this story has been

1199
00:52:44,870 --> 00:52:42,720
around a while colonel willingham had

1200
00:52:47,750 --> 00:52:44,880
been trying to tell people about it

1201
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:47,760
there was an article in the uh february

1202
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:51,359
and march 1968 edition of sky look

1203
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:54,480
which was a predecessor to the mufon

1204
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:56,000
journal right

1205
00:53:01,430 --> 00:52:59,760
and in it the article says that pilot rb

1206
00:53:03,190 --> 00:53:01,440
willingham was leading a squadron of

1207
00:53:05,190 --> 00:53:03,200
jets near the mexican border when he was

1208
00:53:05,990 --> 00:53:05,200
informed that a ufo had crashed on the

1209
00:53:08,390 --> 00:53:06,000
border

1210
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:08,400
and he went to the site to investigate

1211
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:10,319
but found that mexican authorities were

1212
00:53:14,470 --> 00:53:11,040
already there

1213
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:14,480
now when was it that the roswell ufo

1214
00:53:19,349 --> 00:53:16,800
crash was finally

1215
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:19,359
brought out in public with a book by

1216
00:53:22,069 --> 00:53:20,319
berlitz

1217
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,079
the research had been done by stanton

1218
00:53:26,950 --> 00:53:23,920
friedman what year was that does anybody

1219
00:53:33,910 --> 00:53:30,309
1980 was when the book was published so

1220
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:33,920
the the del rio ufo crash story actually

1221
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:35,440
precedes

1222
00:53:39,510 --> 00:53:38,160
roswell and was well known to the key

1223
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:39,520
ufo investigators

1224
00:53:46,150 --> 00:53:42,800
at the time in the 60s and early 70s

1225
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,160
long before anyone even discussed uh

1226
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,640
roswell new mexico so that's part of the

1227
00:53:53,109 --> 00:53:50,000
reason that reuben and i call

1228
00:53:54,470 --> 00:53:53,119
our book the other roswell no any chats

1229
00:53:56,790 --> 00:53:54,480
going to the japanese

1230
00:53:58,470 --> 00:53:56,800
video yeah i'm going to okay this was

1231
00:53:59,589 --> 00:53:58,480
the original just an excerpt from the

1232
00:54:06,069 --> 00:53:59,599
original affidavit

1233
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:08,230
and once again the story is identical to

1234
00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:10,559
what he told us many years later

1235
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:12,480
there was a story believe it or not we

1236
00:54:17,750 --> 00:54:14,559
found uh reuben is the one to thank for

1237
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:17,760
this in january 24 1978 edition of

1238
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,880
what was called the midnight globe in

1239
00:54:24,790 --> 00:54:21,599
which

1240
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:24,800
um colonel willingham tells

1241
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,000
briefly his story uh so this you know

1242
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:29,839
this was

1243
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:32,480
preceding this story was also covered in

1244
00:54:40,789 --> 00:54:33,119
the

1245
00:54:40,799 --> 00:54:46,470
which was published in 1978 also

1246
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:49,430
we found documents statements given to a

1247
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:51,680
ufo researcher which was never

1248
00:54:55,990 --> 00:54:54,240
has never been publicly released the

1249
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:56,000
transcripts of his interview with

1250
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,720
willingham his original interview

1251
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,960
and it all jives with what we've already

1252
00:55:04,470 --> 00:55:02,079
told you

1253
00:55:06,710 --> 00:55:04,480
just additional evidence that this story

1254
00:55:18,150 --> 00:55:06,720
was out there was well known

1255
00:55:23,190 --> 00:55:21,190
the irony is that

1256
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:23,200
you folks here in del rio didn't know

1257
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:24,240
about this

1258
00:55:30,390 --> 00:55:27,280
yet everyone in japan knew about it and

1259
00:55:31,670 --> 00:55:30,400
back in 1978 they did a ufo documentary

1260
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:31,680
about this

1261
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:35,200
so this we were very fortunate to uh

1262
00:55:38,789 --> 00:55:37,520
find the vid this actual video about the

1263
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:38,799
entire case

1264
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:01,589
that that must be del rio there in in

1265
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:02,480
japanese

1266
00:56:28,079 --> 00:56:42,630
we were about

1267
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:56,870
we gotta

1268
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:23,270
third

1269
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:25,510
okay we don't have time unfortunately to

1270
00:57:32,789 --> 00:57:27,760
show more of that our time is up

1271
00:57:35,349 --> 00:57:32,799
uh but it was very obvious that in 1978

1272
00:57:36,950 --> 00:57:35,359
he was telling people about the correct

1273
00:57:38,390 --> 00:57:36,960
crash location now this is something

1274
00:57:40,309 --> 00:57:38,400
that the skeptics

1275
00:57:42,950 --> 00:57:40,319
are saying you know the he told people

1276
00:57:45,190 --> 00:57:42,960
the crash location was down in laredo

1277
00:57:47,190 --> 00:57:45,200
he said it was you know down around

1278
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,200
eagle pass he was all over the map with

1279
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:48,960
it no that's not true

1280
00:57:51,990 --> 00:57:51,520
uh the willingham story at its core has

1281
00:57:58,630 --> 00:57:52,000
remained

1282
00:58:04,630 --> 00:58:02,230
we had we connected with a japanese ufo

1283
00:58:05,510 --> 00:58:04,640
researcher who translated the whole clip

1284
00:58:08,069 --> 00:58:05,520
for us

1285
00:58:08,789 --> 00:58:08,079
and everything in the clip jives with

1286
00:58:13,829 --> 00:58:08,799
what colonel

1287
00:58:13,839 --> 00:58:19,030
let's see

1288
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:22,470
the first book about uh we don't have

1289
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:24,000
time for this clip but if you

1290
00:58:28,309 --> 00:58:27,440
um if you go to kdfw and look up the

1291
00:58:31,910 --> 00:58:28,319
text files

1292
00:58:34,829 --> 00:58:31,920
they actually did a retrospective on the

1293
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:34,839
del rio crash in february 27

1294
00:58:39,750 --> 00:58:38,000
2000. and

1295
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:39,760
and the willingham case has just been

1296
00:58:43,829 --> 00:58:41,200
featured in

1297
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:43,839
timothy goode's outstanding new book

1298
00:58:46,950 --> 00:58:44,319
called

1299
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:46,960
earth and alien enterprise the shocking

1300
00:58:51,990 --> 00:58:49,200
truth behind the greatest cover-up

1301
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:52,000
in human history we collaborated with

1302
00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:53,520
timothy who is one of the world's

1303
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:55,760
best-known ufo researchers

1304
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:58,079
and he chose the willingham case to

1305
00:59:05,030 --> 00:58:59,520
include in his book

1306
00:59:07,349 --> 00:59:05,040
because he thinks it is so powerful

1307
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:07,359
and we close with a cover of astounding

1308
00:59:10,549 --> 00:59:09,359
science fiction magazine from september

1309
00:59:13,829 --> 00:59:10,559
1958

1310
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:13,839
the cover is was done by somebody named

1311
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:16,880
martinez depicting a ufo crash in a

1312
00:59:19,349 --> 00:59:17,280
small

1313
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,359
isolated mexican village there are two

1314
00:59:24,309 --> 00:59:21,040
survivors and one deceased

1315
00:59:26,950 --> 00:59:24,319
alien spectating our priest

1316
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:26,960
and several villagers we have enjoyed

1317
00:59:32,309 --> 00:59:28,640
our time with you and we've got to make

1318
00:59:37,750 --> 00:59:32,319
way for george nori next

1319
00:59:40,870 --> 00:59:39,750
and hopefully later on we'll have time

1320
00:59:42,870 --> 00:59:40,880
to interact with

1321
00:59:45,030 --> 00:59:42,880
some of the questions that you may have